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	<title>Comments on: Onyx Online: Will iPhone Finally Get Its Xbox Live?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/</link>
	<description>... keeping in touch with the latest in iPhone gaming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:35:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Gameloft Live and Crystal SDK Offer New iPhone Social Networks &#124; iPodTouchMaster.com</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-30536</link>
		<dc:creator>Gameloft Live and Crystal SDK Offer New iPhone Social Networks &#124; iPodTouchMaster.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-30536</guid>
		<description>[...] were pretty excited when we first heard that developers were beginning to offer various Xbox Live-like social networks. These networks [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] were pretty excited when we first heard that developers were beginning to offer various Xbox Live-like social networks. These networks [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MeshMash &#187; Gameloft Live and Crystal SDK Offer New iPhone Social Networks</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-30508</link>
		<dc:creator>MeshMash &#187; Gameloft Live and Crystal SDK Offer New iPhone Social Networks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-30508</guid>
		<description>[...] were pretty excited when we first heard that developers were beginning to offer various Xbox Live-like social networks. These networks [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] were pretty excited when we first heard that developers were beginning to offer various Xbox Live-like social networks. These networks [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zincous</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-14658</link>
		<dc:creator>Zincous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-14658</guid>
		<description>Sorry to say this actually won&#039;t be happening:

http://demiforce.blogspot.com/2009/03/onyx-rip.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to say this actually won't be happening:</p>
<p><a href="http://demiforce.blogspot.com/2009/03/onyx-rip.html" rel="nofollow">http://demiforce.blogspot.com/2009/03/onyx-rip.html</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: OpenFeint wordt plug-and-play sociaal platform voor iPhone-games &#62; Nieuws &#62; iPhoneclub.nl</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-13020</link>
		<dc:creator>OpenFeint wordt plug-and-play sociaal platform voor iPhone-games &#62; Nieuws &#62; iPhoneclub.nl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-13020</guid>
		<description>[...] Aurora Feint zijn niet de enige die bezig zijn met een iPhone-gamesplatform: ook Steve Demeter van Onyx Online (ontwikkelaar van Trism) is met iets soortgelijks bezig. Elke ontwikkelaar kan de Onyx-code aan een [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Aurora Feint zijn niet de enige die bezig zijn met een iPhone-gamesplatform: ook Steve Demeter van Onyx Online (ontwikkelaar van Trism) is met iets soortgelijks bezig. Elke ontwikkelaar kan de Onyx-code aan een [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: fuzzymath</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6179</link>
		<dc:creator>fuzzymath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6179</guid>
		<description>@steve 

&quot;Onyx is going to compete with the games pushed out by companies with a “loss leading” strategy.&quot;

This implies they won&#039;t be using Onyx (why wouldn&#039;t they? it&#039;s free) which means they will be rejected which means you will be screening participants. 

Which means Onyx can&#039;t be free or open to all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@steve </p>
<p>"Onyx is going to compete with the games pushed out by companies with a “loss leading” strategy."</p>
<p>This implies they won't be using Onyx (why wouldn't they? it's free) which means they will be rejected which means you will be screening participants. </p>
<p>Which means Onyx can't be free or open to all?</p>
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		<title>By: canthon</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6178</link>
		<dc:creator>canthon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6178</guid>
		<description>Apple will never let this happen. Free or not, they will never approve of a network being built on top of their own App Store. In their minds, assuring end user experience requires total control. They will cite some clause like duplicating the functionality of the Top list in the rejection letter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple will never let this happen. Free or not, they will never approve of a network being built on top of their own App Store. In their minds, assuring end user experience requires total control. They will cite some clause like duplicating the functionality of the Top list in the rejection letter.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Lake</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6176</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6176</guid>
		<description>If the history of gaming has taught us anything, it&#039;s that a social networking aspect is a positive thing for any developer.  WoW, Counter-Strike, Starcraft, X-Box Live, Halo, etc, etc, etc were all &quot;given&quot; extended lives by the social aspect.

What Steve is proposing to do IS the future.  There is no question.  Whether or not a larger company steps in and brings a more sophisticated product is yet to be seen.  Grass roots efforts are admirable but often sink in the ocean of corporate business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the history of gaming has taught us anything, it's that a social networking aspect is a positive thing for any developer.  WoW, Counter-Strike, Starcraft, X-Box Live, Halo, etc, etc, etc were all "given" extended lives by the social aspect.</p>
<p>What Steve is proposing to do IS the future.  There is no question.  Whether or not a larger company steps in and brings a more sophisticated product is yet to be seen.  Grass roots efforts are admirable but often sink in the ocean of corporate business.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Demeter</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6175</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Demeter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6175</guid>
		<description>@fluffy

Good point. My blog post (linked in the article) talks about this.

Onyx is not going to compete with the Spores or the Asphalt Racers, which are appropriately priced at 10 bucks. Onyx is going to compete with the games pushed out by companies with a &quot;loss leading&quot; strategy. These companies sell their games at a loss in order to build brands and get recognition on the top lists rather than make money. This strategy unfortunately chokes out independents, because they cannot sell at a loss. They need every one of their games to make money in order to keep their small company afloat. 

Onyx helps independents by forming a network which makes the notion of the AppStore&#039;s &quot;top lists&quot; obsolete. Instead, Onyx will allow gamers to easily form friendships with eachother, driving sales through recommendations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fluffy</p>
<p>Good point. My blog post (linked in the article) talks about this.</p>
<p>Onyx is not going to compete with the Spores or the Asphalt Racers, which are appropriately priced at 10 bucks. Onyx is going to compete with the games pushed out by companies with a "loss leading" strategy. These companies sell their games at a loss in order to build brands and get recognition on the top lists rather than make money. This strategy unfortunately chokes out independents, because they cannot sell at a loss. They need every one of their games to make money in order to keep their small company afloat. </p>
<p>Onyx helps independents by forming a network which makes the notion of the AppStore's "top lists" obsolete. Instead, Onyx will allow gamers to easily form friendships with eachother, driving sales through recommendations.</p>
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		<title>By: Nfrno</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6174</link>
		<dc:creator>Nfrno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6174</guid>
		<description>@fluffy

You stated your points very well and I agree. 

The big developers are at a disadvantage to independent developers from the point of unit sales. If 2 games are equally well made then the 99 cent game will sell a whole lot more than the $9.99 game. This will cause the independent developer to place higher on the list. 

The advantage of the big developers comes from a lot money invested into large programming teams and resources which have a better chance for a better game. A better game will sell more units and you should rightfully appear higher on the list.

If Apple ranked by sales dollars (unit x price) then the big developers would certainly lock up the top slots with their higher priced games that also generate large unit sales. The current system actually allows a good game that can&#039;t sell large numbers at $9.99 but can sell a bunch at a lower price point to compete with the &quot;Big boys&quot;.

That said, I have been very impressed by the high quality games put out by many independent developers and I have been happy to give them my money by purchasing their games. Great job!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fluffy</p>
<p>You stated your points very well and I agree. </p>
<p>The big developers are at a disadvantage to independent developers from the point of unit sales. If 2 games are equally well made then the 99 cent game will sell a whole lot more than the $9.99 game. This will cause the independent developer to place higher on the list. </p>
<p>The advantage of the big developers comes from a lot money invested into large programming teams and resources which have a better chance for a better game. A better game will sell more units and you should rightfully appear higher on the list.</p>
<p>If Apple ranked by sales dollars (unit x price) then the big developers would certainly lock up the top slots with their higher priced games that also generate large unit sales. The current system actually allows a good game that can't sell large numbers at $9.99 but can sell a bunch at a lower price point to compete with the "Big boys".</p>
<p>That said, I have been very impressed by the high quality games put out by many independent developers and I have been happy to give them my money by purchasing their games. Great job!!</p>
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		<title>By: blakespot</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6173</link>
		<dc:creator>blakespot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6173</guid>
		<description>I really think, in agreement with ng:moco&#039;s Neil Young, that iPhone gamers need to occasionally be willing to pay DS and PSP prices for games for the platform to realize its potential.  I mean....why not?  Is a superbly crafted game not potentially worth $15, $20, $30?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really think, in agreement with ng:moco's Neil Young, that iPhone gamers need to occasionally be willing to pay DS and PSP prices for games for the platform to realize its potential.  I mean....why not?  Is a superbly crafted game not potentially worth $15, $20, $30?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Le</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6172</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6172</guid>
		<description>this sounds really cool I&#039;ll have to contact them about my puzzle game

It&#039;s funny how all the top games are around 99 cents, it&#039;s like Apple planned this all along for cheap value for the consumer, and now they can list &quot;cheaper than ds/psp games&quot; as a big feature</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this sounds really cool I'll have to contact them about my puzzle game</p>
<p>It's funny how all the top games are around 99 cents, it's like Apple planned this all along for cheap value for the consumer, and now they can list "cheaper than ds/psp games" as a big feature</p>
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		<title>By: fuzzymath</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6169</link>
		<dc:creator>fuzzymath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6169</guid>
		<description>@fluffy

&quot;So, how is it logical that the big developers would be able to afford to price their games more cheaply?&quot;

They can&#039;t. And they don&#039;t. They don&#039;t need to as Joe the Plumber thinks EA&#039;s games are better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fluffy</p>
<p>"So, how is it logical that the big developers would be able to afford to price their games more cheaply?"</p>
<p>They can't. And they don't. They don't need to as Joe the Plumber thinks EA's games are better.</p>
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		<title>By: fluffy</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6167</link>
		<dc:creator>fluffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6167</guid>
		<description>&quot;Steve warns that independent developers who simply can’t afford to price their games so cheaply are basically shut out of the Top lists&quot;

This is a pretty puzzling statement.  Independent developers have tiny teams, so the sale price only has to be split across 3-4 people, if even that many.  Whereas the big developers often have HUGE teams, so the sale price has to be split across dozens of people.  So, how is it logical that the big developers would be able to afford to price their games more cheaply?

If you price your game cheaply and it&#039;s a good game, you&#039;ll get a hell of a lot of sales, whether it was made by a small team or a big team, and for a small team that means more revenue per person.

Basically, what Steve says makes absolutely no sense from an economics or common-sense point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Steve warns that independent developers who simply can’t afford to price their games so cheaply are basically shut out of the Top lists"</p>
<p>This is a pretty puzzling statement.  Independent developers have tiny teams, so the sale price only has to be split across 3-4 people, if even that many.  Whereas the big developers often have HUGE teams, so the sale price has to be split across dozens of people.  So, how is it logical that the big developers would be able to afford to price their games more cheaply?</p>
<p>If you price your game cheaply and it's a good game, you'll get a hell of a lot of sales, whether it was made by a small team or a big team, and for a small team that means more revenue per person.</p>
<p>Basically, what Steve says makes absolutely no sense from an economics or common-sense point of view.</p>
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		<title>By: meme</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6166</link>
		<dc:creator>meme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6166</guid>
		<description>&quot;The question is, how long until Apple steals the idea and starts rejecting any new software that includes the Onyx Online code?&quot;

Then Developers use the new system and the guys behind Onyx have some issues to deal with, i cant see why Apple wouldnt want to use any users Onyx has accumulated and do some deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"The question is, how long until Apple steals the idea and starts rejecting any new software that includes the Onyx Online code?"</p>
<p>Then Developers use the new system and the guys behind Onyx have some issues to deal with, i cant see why Apple wouldnt want to use any users Onyx has accumulated and do some deal.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nexus-6</title>
		<link>http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/13/onyx-online-will-iphone-finally-get-its-xbox-live/#comment-6156</link>
		<dc:creator>Nexus-6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toucharcade.com/?p=1045#comment-6156</guid>
		<description>The question is, how long until Apple steals the idea and starts rejecting any new software that includes the Onyx Online code?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is, how long until Apple steals the idea and starts rejecting any new software that includes the Onyx Online code?</p>
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