Piracy is getting worse...

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by Psychonaut, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
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    I think I missed the explanation of what 'DRM copy protection' is. Can you explain or point me to it? Are you referring to the check for modifications to the info.plist file?

     
  2. TractionGames

    TractionGames Well-Known Member

    Yes Greg, I am referring to the SignerIdentity check in Info.Plist. It is nothing too sophisticated and rather than show an error 'violation' screen as we did we really should have done something more crafty with it like logging illegit owners when they submit scores online. At least then we'd have some kind of data on how many people were stealing the game. Even if you take the lost $$ out of the equation, it would be nice to know how many people are actually out there playing your titles. Will definately do something along those lines next time / update.
     
  3. mobile1up

    mobile1up Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2008
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    Munich, Germany
    DRM = digital rights management

    apple uses digital signing to perform this; hence the concept of "signingidentity" - its the reason why you need to create your own development signatures and have everything managed via itunesconnect. apple signs the application using your public signature combined with the user's unique profile (in apple's fairuse policy, this is a "computer", not "user") so that it cannot be distributed to other people.

    what happens with cracked versions is the device is modified to ignore such checks and the application is resigned with generic profile information - hence, it can run anywhere.. without installing a jailbreak to modify the underlying checks; you cannot run pirate applications.

    if apple was smart; they would secure their OS to prevent jailbreaking - technically; they are liable for piracy on the platform since their DRM solution has been broken due to a lack / negligence of securing their operating system.

    but, every platform eventually gets "modified/cracked" - one of the reasons is that platforms typically always use open source / public code which has specific exploits (buffer overflow et al) which open up the security holes. if they avoided such public code; and hand crafted everything - they would take longer to develop the OS and have a higher level of security. i've seen PSP cracked due to flaws in graphics libraries (TIFF exploit comes to mind)..

    maybe the developers should sue apple for the loss of sales due to negligence?
     
  4. jonlink

    jonlink Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2009
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    Sasquatch
    Japan
    Wow, you're either a funny person or the worst lawyer alive. Apple has broken the jailbreak with every update. Technically they are in no way liable because they are in no way legally negligent. My remedial understanding of law is enough to know you wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of legally proving negligence. You'd have to prove they are being careless. I am 100% certain that even the jailbreaking community would stick up for Apple in this respect.

    negligent
    adj., adv. careless in not fulfilling responsibility. (source)
     
  5. Mastersoft

    Mastersoft Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2009
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    Only Apple can solve the piracy issue. In the meantime keep sending those DMCA notices to the file hosters and don't torture yourself too much by investigating percentages.
     
  6. MikeSz_spokko

    MikeSz_spokko Well-Known Member

    May 27, 2009
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    the game got released as soon as it was approved, so not

    so either the forum was broken and added wrong dates (which is highly improbable), or someone leaked it. and since we only tested the game on our friends' devices... leaves only one possibility ;)

    too bad it's impossible to find this forum now, it was some russian site... and it was really kinda funny, cause the first reply in the forum was with a screenshot of our anti-piracy screen with user complaining that the release was not working ;)
     
  7. Mastersoft

    Mastersoft Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2009
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    Most of the piracy sites appear to get their revenue via Paypal. Perhaps if there was a way to cut off their funding we could at least fight back a little. Maybe Paypal don't even realise they are inadvertently supporting piracy.
     
  8. minga

    minga Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2009
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    o hai could some of these extra app users be legitimate users who have shared the app with someone else?
    like how i can share my apps with me and 4 other computers = my app on 5 iphones? but could be even more if someone has 2 iphones syncing to their computer?
     
  9. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    Very good observation. It's against PayPal's ToS, so theoretically you just need to report them and they'll freeze their account.
     
  10. Jaytouch

    Jaytouch Member

    Oct 15, 2009
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    no its not they run perfectly
     
  11. Mastersoft

    Mastersoft Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2009
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    I'd like to see Apple do something similar to the XBOX Live Ban.
     
  12. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    Unfortunately, I don't know if that's currently possible… The Xbox Live ban works because MS have their own online gaming portal, and so they're able to block anyone they detect is using a modded Xbox. Apple doesn't have an online gaming portal. It would be down to services like OpenFeint, Plus+, etc. to block jailbroken iPhones using their service, but they're not obliged to do it.

    I think developers should put more pressure on Openfeint to implement some sort of account block for jailbroken devices. It wouldn't do much to stop piracy, but it would be one feature pirates wouldn't be able to use, thus giving incentive to stay as a legal user.
     
  13. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

    Mar 1, 2009
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    It would be possible for Apple to add code to all apps so they would not open on jailbroken devices.
     
  14. sumiguchi

    sumiguchi Well-Known Member

    May 7, 2009
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    They do... and it gets cracked.
     
  15. ImNoSuperMan

    ImNoSuperMan Well-Known Member

    Jun 28, 2009
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    Then they need to do better. Maybe hire Geohot and completely stop jailbreaking of iDevices. :cool:

    Jailbreaking doesnt really do any good to Apple. I think they should invest more in making the iDevices un-jailbreakable.
     
  16. GlennX

    GlennX Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2009
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    It is entirely possible for an app to spot it is running on a Jailbroken device and refuse to run, crash or do anything you want. There are problems with this:

    Firstly, Someone would probably remove your extra check(s), then be able to claim to be a more hardcore hacker, adding his own load screen and his 'name' to the credits etc.

    Rather more importantly, most Jailbrakers (according to Pinch Media's stats) also run legit apps. I really wouldn't want to make some of the most enthusiastic iPhone users unable to run a legitimately purchased copy of my game. It would just turn even more Jailbreakers into pirates.
     
  17. wootbean

    wootbean Well-Known Member

    Feb 8, 2009
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    the next whiskey bar
    I'm pretty sure there's always something that someone somewhere will find. Everything seems to have some weakness somewhere
     
  18. micah

    micah Well-Known Member

    Aug 24, 2009
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    San Francisco
    I think that would be a really bad idea.

    I develop games on a jailbroken device. Not because I pirate games too, but because I'm a unix nerd and like having full control of the piece of hardware I bought. I can run processes in the background, set up ruby and python scripts, and install an openssh server (not to mention the terminal app and the ssh client, making my iPod so much more useful). I'm all in support of people jailbreaking their devices.

    Also, Apple "trying harder" isn't going to work, because of the nature of software piracy. Unless the app is required to authenticate and communicate with a server that you control to run (like an MMO, for example -- or OpenFeint even, if your game depends on it), then the code for the app is in the attacker's hand, and they will be able to crack it. Period. Apple adding anti-cracking measures, or fixing the whole that let the jailbreak happen to begin with will only fix it for a short amount of time, until people crack it again. It's just an arms race.

    Now getting OpenFeint to not work with pirated apps, as opposed to jailbroken devices, is another story. I can't think of any way to do this, again because the attacker controls the app. For example, OF can let you upload the md5 checksum of your game binary, once it's been compiled and is ready for the App Store. Then, you can have code in your game that does an md5 checksum on your game binary and sends it to OF, and if the checksums don't match, the game has been modified. This, of course, is still possible for crackers to get around (make the OF md5sum function return the right checksum every time, for example). So it would still be another step in the arms race, that would eventually get cracked.

    I say, focus on making good games that people like and that become popular, and don't annoy your users with DRM. If you do that, you will make money off the app store.
     
  19. Harpgliss

    Harpgliss Well-Known Member

    Nov 8, 2009
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    Here No More
    Hi,


    WOW! Just WOW!

    David
     
  20. CDubby94

    CDubby94 Well-Known Member

    Mar 31, 2009
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    Betty White
    Jailbreaking by itself makes your iPod 1000x more useful.
     

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