I agree with you Tim. I just look over the ads BUT definitely think the people complaining about it have merit and a good point.
First of all, "premium" just means a paid title, not a free-to-download one. And even if it meant what you're implying, you're forgetting something: At this price, A LOT more people can afford to buy the game. This offsets much of the perceptively low profitability of the game. Take a top-tier premium console game, like Gears of War 3. The game sold 5 million copies, and it's one of the highest selling Xbox 360 games of all time. Now, take Angry Birds. Sure, it costs a dollar. You know why their devs are rich? Because the game has just hit a landmark of FIVE HUNDRED MILLION downloads. They wouldn't have sold a micro-fraction of that if the game was 50 bucks, or even 5 bucks. Low-priced games move units. Make a quality one, and you'll make money. Simple as that.
Well, there's really only three things devs can do. 1. Make the game premium, price it for what it's worth, and possibly commit monetary suicide. 2. Take advantage of ads, IAPs, and other crappy, non-game stuff to support themselves and family. 3. They can say good riddance and leave the platform. Most of the controversy comes from devs being so private. People want to know if IAPs actually support them and are worth jacking up ingame prices. People want to know if they break even or not. On console it's easier to see numbers/figures for games. Hell, I think if more devs said I did such and such, but only got so many downloads and made such and such, people would respond better. There's plenty of things that we, as customers, can do and Appe as well. If Android ever officially establishes gaming phones, or Microsoft's next gen of phones are up to par, I will definitely consider leaving iOS if this crap doesn't change. And, obviously, prices don't need to be jacked up to ridiculous amounts because then what are consoles, PCs, and other dedicated portable gaming platforms for?!? IMO no iOS game should ever equal a PSP game, especially if I have to update my device every 1-2 years to get whatever is considered top notch gaming at that time.
first of all, many people say "oh I would gladly pay $4.99 (or some price over $1.99) for (insert game name here) if I was sure it didn't have any ads/etc" -> this is definitely not true. Maybe in your case personally, and a very tiny percentage of people like you, but research has proved time and again that unless a developer pinpoints that sweet-spot price ($1.99 is still considered "really pushing it") then the fact is, no matter who you are (big or little studio) you will have a difficult time getting strong sales of your game unless you price "for the masses." And the masses want free, or as close to it as possible. Developers are to blame for this quandary as much as the customers, I won't argue that - most devs just throw their hands in the air and say "when in Rome.." and that's that (many of us feel that we should be able to price our work above $10 at least!) but we don't because, again, this is the culture around here. Pricing that high means it's gotta be GTA, or Final Fantasy, or something of that perceived brand and production value, or no sale. Personally, I don't like seeing the ads in Star Marine either - and it is relatively shocking, considering no one ever does this - but it is certainly far from a game-breaking experience. Just the same, I think it's fair of the community to voice their disapproval of the method by sounding off on the board like this, but it's important not to lose sight of the purpose of this thread (to discuss the actual game itself) rather than get completely swept away in hyperbole. Star Marine is currently being featured by Apple, it's got a good base of reviews, so between the $2 entry price plus ad-impressions/IAP upsells they have to be making a nice little initial round of return on this title. Good for them (that is no small feat in today's market). If I thought I could get away with such a scheme I would certainly try the same, but judging by the attitudes on display in here I think it sends a pretty strong message to the alternative. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what kind of legs it has; if it will start a trend, or the game is dead and buried in a week! To reiterate, to the haters - this is still a new economy, and it is worthwhile for small developers to try experimental methods of pricing/trying to make money on apps in what is an extremely volatile market. It understandable that some to you may be incensed, but please try to respect that - keep your perspective.
Well, one could say devs are lying, but I've seen plenty of reports for good games made at a low price and get lost after a couple of days. The spike doesn't last long in the AppStore, especially when a large amount of the customer base is casual. And Angry Birds is as casual as you can get! And it was heavily popularized a long time ago. People forget how saturated the AppStore is and games get lost or leave the top charts quickly. There was one good reason made for Shmup (more so Cave) pricing. It's a niche game and opening up the market will bring in ignorant people who bring down the name of the game. A argument for FF was similar, but added in that Square Enix prices their games in order to not discredit their console games. We aren't devs or game marketing experts, so we can't say what makes a dev more money, puts food on their table, and/or pays for new updates. We can say what affects us as gamers though, whether it matters or not. We forget that the market is ridiculously over saturated and that this isn't a dedicated gaming platform. I tried to sum this up as quickly and shortly as possible because I have sh*t to do, and I've been procrastinating like a mutha! Edit I semi-contradicted myself. I said I've seen plenty, but that plenty is still very few when you look at the amount of games released and being released. Also, they're not necessarily games from big hitters.
this is flawed logic, and many developers still follow this thinking and get scorned & burned. Making a quality game in no way guarantees any financial compensation anymore. There's simply too much noise, competition. Even if a dev makes something sharp and gets coverage from plenty of media outlets/etc, at $1-$2/sale they will very likely get a few grand to show for their efforts at the end of the day unless their app has staying power, which is really hard to predict. Most developers (still!) have no idea how to deal with/interest in marketing/promotion properly and so once they tumble down the charts, they're never coming back. Also it is ridiculous to compare any game to Angry Birds (or cu the rope, fruit ninja, etc) any more. That game has reached a phenomenal plateau unlike 99% of any of the other software out there, and it's unbelievable success was obviously not by design (how could it be!) I am not saying it's not a good game, I am just saying that's not a good model to follow. This is a new wrinkle, but more and more people will disagree with this sentiment. A lot of people are simply spending way more time gaming on their phones than on dedicated mobile hardware than ever before, and I don't see the trend reversing. I think iOS/Android/etc gaming is here to stay and the bigger guys (Sony, Nintendo) definitely have things to worry about going forward. It's not all over yet, but in the next few years it will absolutely be a dramatic shift.
A wrinkle indeed! I, personally, don't know how I feel about paying $20-40 for virtual/digital media, especially with the economy in flux. It still seems as if you'll be able to sell your PS vita games back to GameStop. Selling things back or being able to give it to a friend or family member has always helped us, consumers like me, out and doesn't seem to screw up developers money. At least that's how it seemed back when I was heavy into console gaming. But yeah, I agree that more people spend time (or are starting to spend more time) on mobile than DS/PSP. IMHO, IAP/digital media doesn't fundamentally make sense to me as a consumer if the prices are jacked up. IDK...
When i first got an ipod touch i immediatly sold all my psp and ds games at gamestop and got itunes giftcards. I was instantly hooked and i dont regret my decision yet!. Spoiler (Even though i can get all ds/psp games online for free using roms and iso/cso = D Hehe)
@Quazonk Sadly, you are wrong. Let me explain. Unfortunately the perceived value of mobile games is stuck at $1 or free for most people. This is why small Devs rely so heavily on IAPs given as an option for those who are willing to pay for them. Earlier in the thread I saw a certain someone marking the "negatives" of the game from what he had saw before playing and very sadly, "- $2" was on top of the list along with "- IAP". See the problem there? People want more for less and this doesn't help the Devs, nor the customers at this point. No offense, but how you can compare a blockbuster million dollar production console title to a quality indie production is simply ludicrous, to be completely honest. I can see what you're trying to say but not every game will be an Angry Bird success story. In fact, 99% of quality indie titles with limited marketing never make it to the top 100 grossing, whether priced at $1 or $15, it's simply not reasonable to make that comparison. This is not true either. As mentioned, most games get buried in the rubble of the AppStore within weeks, if not sooner, no matter how great unless out of pure luck, word of mouth gets around quick enough. Look at Terra Noctis. I'm sure the sales have been more than satisfying from where they started off but if I'm not mistaken, it's now slipped through the cracks and fell off the charts. Your perception is warped based on the value of the AppStore and the rare success of some bigger names. This is Glitchsoft's first game in the AppStore and a quality one at that. In-app advertising coupled with the select group who will willingly watch the ads or pay for IAP may be able to keep these guys afloat long enough once they've fallen off the charts to continue developing at this quality. I'm not saying this game would have been a complete failure had it not had these things but it's a real possibility that they would have fell into the same hole as firefruitforge, having to say "sorry to our fans we may not be able to live in a house and still produce games." Of course we know they have picked up steam but for how long. Anyway, sorry for the long winded post but just saying. I may have been all over the place and missed a few points but I'm sure I've made a point -- not every quality game priced at $1 without IAP will be even remotely successful. The perception that every game should be universal, support retina, completely lack IAP and be less than 200 pennies is unreasonable and this is why quality games in the AppStore are largely at a standstill. Devs are falling off left and right because of this and moving toward freemium faster than ever. It's not the developer's fault, it's the customer's.
Seeing the issues with the ads, I'm gonna put it this way: I'm staying away until they're gone. When that happens, I'll probly buy it. Even if it were 99c, I'd stay away until the ads were gone. If I buy a game, I don't want it to have ads in it unless it's for the dev's own titles and not in an obtrusive fashion. Period.
Quite how my experience is so wildly different from everyone else who is complaining i'll never know...but the only ad I have seen is for destructopus (their own game) on launch and thats it. I have not touched the IAP screen and have played the game enough to complete it and go back and finish some levels again to get some upgrades, because its fun not because i felt like i needed to grind. This game deserves to cost more than its 1.99 price, but if it tried that probably no-one would buy it hence the inclusion of IAPs and hidden ads (on the IAP screen)to make up for it. Why do people say the ads ruin the game? Its not like gun bros or any other glu game that has them plastered over the menus. As I said earlier, if you are passing on a game because of one ad on the launch screen, how the hell do you survive watching tv, going to movies, reading magasines etc...
@Madman: Are you saying that I noted the game being at 2 bucks as being a negative? What thread are you reading? I said I'd gladly pay MUCH MORE for the game, but only wish to pay one time. You're right, it's not fair to compare a blockbuster to an indie game, but these indie games don't cost nearly as much to develop either. Some teams are 3 guys, making a game on the cheap, and selling it on the cheap. The bottom line is they CAN make money if they make a quality product. It's absolutely true. Good games get noticed, mediocre ones fall by the wayside. Why are people defending these pay-mium games? It makes zero sense to me. Do you WANT ads in your paid games? Are you arguing just for the sake of argument?
Nope. I'm talking about somebody else. Not all good games turn a profit. It's true. And no the ads aren't good. But personally speaking, I don't find them intrusive at all since the only one I ever notice is upon opening the app.
Well I have heard others say they only see the Destructopus ad at the beginning of the game. I could live with that. Unfortunately, my experience is far different. I have ads left and right for Social Girl, Tap Zoo 2, Top girl, etc. I have posted pics. One time I had FOUR ads pop up before entering a game, 2 of which I accidentally clicked on and was taken out of the game and to the App Store. It was really annoying. Now I know the App market is messed up with price expectations being so low, but I am one that is willing to pay more for the app itself, if it's of high quality. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd pay much more than 2 bucks for an enjoyable game. I'd happily pay that premium price if it meant I got more core game, and less intrusive distractions. One man's view.
Most never will make money on the App Store (if you don't believe me, look at the surveys - or poke your head in the development blogs of so many people wondering why they don't make money). If you've been around this scene for a couple of years, you'll notice that more often than not, several devs whose games have been featured around here (and had very positive TA threads, Apple features, etc) have disappeared without a trace. People have moved on. It may not count millions of dollars to develop for the App Store, but you can still spend several thousands of dollars' worth. Hell, advertising alone (properly) on the higher end can realistically cost over a grand per day (no I am not simply saying "the occasional banner ad"). On average, development and promotion of anything other than subpar also-ran software is very often going to cost a lot more, a lot more, than the majority of developers are going to see in return. This is why I can not go angry on Glitchsoft or their ilk for trying something different with their methods. Again, it is still too early to tell if this was a bad idea or not, but ultimately something can be learned from it (by them, or the other people watching their results). If you really don't support these methods, that's fine - but don't whine when more indie developers start dropping off the scene, or they turn to developing only "safe/uninteresting" software (and therefore killing the indie culture around here). It is reactionary on both sides.
I won't "whine" (love how you guys are just SLINGING that word around because someone isn't happy about a games pay structure), but I will be upset, and rightfully so. If you'll read my last post, I said that I am willing to pay more for these games. I am willing to support them by BUYING THE GAMES, and paying more if need be to keep these guys afloat. Do you understand?? If more people don't agree with me, and aren't willing to pay like I am for premium product, and the devs go under because of people I don't agree with, I'm suddenly on their side of the fence by default somehow, and have no right to be upset? I don't agree with the App Store cheap-asses, and even more than that, I don't agree with the devs throwing ads in our faces. I just want to BUY the game! You know, support the devs?
