Mage Frustrations Sorry you have experienced Mage frustrations! Certainly we don't want you to feel frustrated at your gameplay experience. Your comments can help us adjust the monster and NPC behavior for future versions. Paul could explain better, but I know that even the Mage has his weaknesses. You can cause him NOT to be able to use his magic and teleport away if you precisely time how you draw his fire and cause him to drain the power of his magic staff. Then, using a combination of protective spells, you can jump in and regain the Sword. I would encourage you to consider playing the game again with this new upcoming version due out early this coming month and new year! While the Mage behavior may or may not have been adjusted in this upcoming version, there are so many new things to discover and explore that I believe you may be able to enjoy the game with newfound excitement! Please keep in touch and let us know... -- Jeff McCord
Hey webman2k! Don't sweat the mage... others have had this "problem," and well he is a sort of boss character you know! However he can be beaten... his magic is not unlimited. Draw his fire and take him out... keep an eye on his staff! The update that is coming along shortly will give you new ways to tackle situations like this, but also new challenges to overcome and keep the balance.
I figured as much. I noticed after a few blasts his staff would stop glowing. I tried attacking him then and he still warped out every time I tried. I'm interested to see what's coming - as I said, the game was a blast to play up to that point - but if I'm going to invest the time in getting down there again and leveling up, which took hours, I'd love to see the following: 1. Sword Tracker: Call this mystical spell what you will. When you cast it, it'll give you the ability - assuming you have retrieved the sword - to track it if it's stolen. You know how you have that pulsing light on your character if you've cast a certain spell? I'm thinking this spell would flash a beacon around your character in the direction of the sword. An arrow could point away from the character - like a compass - if the sword is on the same level. If the sword is on a lower level, the pulse could be red, upper level, could be green. Something like that. You could get this spell by killing Mages, since they'd have them to find the sword if you had it, right? (See how I worked that into the game universe? The spell could wear off after a couple of moves, but would give you at least a clue as to where to go. 2. Multiple save slots per game. Please. Please. If I'm going to play a game for hours and hours, I don't want to throw all that time invested away if something stupid happens, or I make a simple mistake. You don't get lives in this game - run out of healing potions and you're dead. I know the game saves automatically, but I'd love to be able to make a "copy" of my save game in another slot. This way, if I screw up after getting the sword (like the Mage frustration), I don't have to replay the entire game from the beginning. I think that those two additions would make the game even more accessible, and take all of the frustration away from an otherwise perfect crawler.
Not to be a prick, WebMan2k, but the single save slot is actually a key aspect of the roguelike games and not an oversight. If they allowed multiple save slots it would just be a matter of saving whenever things are going well and restoring to that point once the crap hit the fan. While you're clearly requesting to have just that, much like the easy date who let you sleep with her on the first night, you wouldn't respect the game the next morning if they made it that simple to beat.
I'm still waiting on some dpad controls to make their way into the game before I really get invested in it That's just my preferred control method
Here are my thoughts on not having "lives"... I played the game to dungeon L5. I was doing well, then came across a monster who killed me in one shot. Game over. No potions. I tried to start the game again, thinking it would put me back at the start of Level 5... but nope, I had to start all the way over. Almost made me want to delete the game. Just my opinion.
No offense taken, but what's the harm of adding it in? I've tried the other rogue type games, and they are way too involved for me to get into. I simply just don't have the time. This game comes along (I know - I had no idea about it until it hit the app store) and all of a sudden it's a lot more accessible to me. I don't have to learn about too many spells or upgrades. Just a few items, and hack and slash to deeper maps and higher character levels. I can play for a few minutes - maybe to clear a map, or to advance a level - short term goals. The point is, I just don't have a lot of time to sit and play in one session. If I had a few hours, I could probably make it down to the sword from the beginning, screw up, and - oh well - it was fun. problem is, I only have a few minutes a day. I got really hooked into this game, so with the time I had, spent two weeks getting down to level 20. That's a lot of time invested. It's not about making it easier to beat, it's about getting another shot at beating it. With your philosophy, every game should have one life, and no option to save the game yourself. No checkpoints. Imagine getting all the way to the end of Legend of Zelda, only to die and have to start at the beginning. There are countless other games like that. The frustration would kill people. And in some rare occurrences with World of Warcraft, Everquest, and some very unfortunately misguided kids, actually has (completely understand the nature of MMORPGs - just illustrating a point). It's a game. It's not life. If I want to try again, I should be able to. That's the difference. If I wanted a real one-shot challenge, I'd climb a mountain, Join the army, go skydiving, sleep with someone on the first date (really, talk about a gamble etc. Sword of Fargoal has already made itself very accessible to newbie in this genre, why not give them the opportunity to be completely relaxed and have fun if they want? You'd never have to use it if you didn't want to, there are no world leader boards where you'd need to worry about gamers using save slots to get the highest score. So yes, I'd like to restore to the point before the crap hit the fan. It's my game, my make believe world. And in my make believe world, I like to win. God knows we lose enough in real life. Please don't read any hostility in this, just voicing an opinion.
Permadeath is an integral part of the gameplay. Each dive into the dungeon you (YOU, the human) learn more and more how to survive. Though you will die, over and over, and sometimes to stupid reasons or the random number generator hating you, still you play again taking what you've learned with you on the next trip, striving to do better. =================================== From wikipedia: Roguelikes traditionally implement permanent death ("permadeath"). Once a character dies, the player must begin a new game. A "save game" feature will only provide suspension of gameplay and not a limitlessly recoverable state; the stored session is deleted upon resumption or character death. Players can circumvent this by backing up stored game data ("save scumming"), an act that may be considered cheating. =================================== Fargoal is a wonderful game but its actually not as 'killer' as some others....Moria, Nethack, Angband which can be brutally hard. I think Fargoal is the best roguelike for all since it allows grognards and casual people to enjoy it, but if it were changed to save multiple save states, then it wouldn't BE Fargoal.
If you're that desperate for a save slot, you could restore your device from a backup... *ducks* You are backing up regularly, aren't you?
I respect your opinion Webman2k, but Roguelikes are not Zelda. (and I love Zelda) ================================ The roguelike is a sub-genre of role-playing video games, characterized by randomization for replayability, permanent death, and turn-based movement. Many early roguelikes featured ASCII graphics. Games are typically dungeon crawls, with many monsters, items, and environmental features. Computer roguelikes usually employ the majority of the keyboard to facilitate interaction with items and the environment. The name of the genre comes from the 1980 game Rogue. ================================
As LordGek stated, this would destroy the entire fabric of what this game is built around. You'll need to look somewhere else if you want a game where there's no punishment for dying. This game is less about the actual act of killing monsters and getting the sword, and more about strategically planning and preparing for how you'll kill monsters and get the sword. Tough love time, but if you died on level 5 in one hit, that's your fault. You rushed into it. You should have spent a little more time grinding, or exploring the previous floors for the loot you might need in battle. There's really no reason you should die in one hit on level 5 unless you're just rushing through, and going down the stairs every time you get to them. Take your time, collect more loot, try to prepare for what you'll come across. Even if you do all this, you WILL still die a WHOLE bunch. Learn from those mistakes. Use that in your next game. It will be so much more satisfying when you actually do make it out with the sword. And don't be discouraged by starting over. The levels are randomly generated, it's a different game every time. Enjoy the ride, and worry less about the destination. It'll come in time. Really? How much time have you spent playing with the current controls? I had some troubles when I first started playing, but learned a few things about the controls and UI, and now I don't think I'd have it any other way. And I'm usually a FAN of d-pads in games, as opposed to other methods. Just in case you haven't given it a decent shot, play around with the current controls a little more and see if they just might grow on you. EDIT: Just read your response webman2k, and I see where you're coming from. But again, adding a save slot like that would destroy what this game is. Part of the appeal of this genre of game is permadeath. It's even fun to share stories of how badly you've gotten screwed in a certain game. I know it's hard to find time to play games with our busy lives, but would you really WANT this game to be over now? Sure you've spent two weeks getting to the last floor, but if you HAD gotten out with the sword, would you be playing again? Hopefully you would, because just PLAYING the game is what's fun. Not really the beating it part. So look at it that way, if it takes you 2 weeks to get down to level 20, think of how accomplished you'll feel when you finally DO get the sword out. This is probably the easiest roguelike available, don't short change yourself by making it easier.
Case in point. I just died. I was L11. I had 3 Healing Potions and 2 Restoration Potions in my pack. A Shadow Dragon on Floor 8 just killed me. -26/132 HP. The potions did not automatically get used. Bug? If I had known the game wasn't going to use the potions automatically, I would have used them before the battle I initiated. Either way, I won't be playing the game again. Y'all have fun.
They ARE automatically used, as long as the damage done by the enemy doesn't exceed what the potion would give you. What level were you? Because it sounds like you're just not leveling yourself up enough to deal with the monsters. Are you exploring every floor, or just rushing downstairs every time you find them? You're letting your lack of understanding of this game ruin it for you. Don't think I haven't died hundreds of times, after spending loads of time with a particular game-save. It's happened to us all. I guess this game just isn't for you, then. It does demand a certain level of commitment that today's gamers don't really have.
Not a bug, when you hit the negatives a potion or restoration are sometimes used. However there is a calculation based on your experience level that determines the permakill. Once you take damage and pass this negative number you are instantly killed regardless of your potions. You have to be managing your potions and spells in battle. If you assume it will happen automatically then you'll never make it out of the dungeon.
I think the arguments here for and against adding a manual save feature come down to preserving the purity of the original design, and the genre as a whole. To that end, I add the following: Why should it matter? Why can't the game be a rogue-like that "adds" the ability to save and restore if the player wants it? If not, maybe adding this feature takes it over the line, and out of the pure rogue-like experience. Would that be bad? Certainly not for fans of this port who were previously frustrated, and certainly not for sales. There are those who would not use this feature, and those who would welcome it. There seem to be at least a few, and I imagine a good percentage of players who bought the game, loved it, then died after a long time only to realize they can't jump back in at a reasonable part in their progression. Nothing would force hard core players to use this feature, but it would be there for the "not so hard core" rest of us. Bottom line is, it's obvious that some players would like this feature. What I'm curious about, is if it were implemented, would the hard core rogue players not play the game just because the feature was there, or would they still play and just not use it. If you don't use it, isn't it still a rogue-like game? If I were to use it, then "I'm" not playing a rogue like game anymore, but that's OK with me. This discussion is very interesting.
Some sort of tutorial with that kind of information would have been good to know. I was Level 11, and a Restoration Potion had always put me at full health. I wrongly assumed that it would be used automatically, but I guess a 38 damage crit put me in that "perma" dead state. Quite unfortunate, as I did want to enjoy the game... but I don't feel like leveling up again. *shrug* Cheers.
From the RGRAFAQ (from ADOM a slightly more recent yet still classic roguelike) http://www.adomgb.info/rgrafaq.txt ============================================= 4.3: What is save scumming? Save scumming is the practice of backing up save files so that they can be restored in case something bad (such as character death) happens. According to the design of the game, this is cheating. Having said that, many, if not most, have done it at some time. If it makes the game more enjoyable for you, do it, but be aware that completing the game using this method is not considered a victory. More like a tour. Reformed savescummers report an improvement in game enjoyment after kicking the habit, so you might give it a try if you've got hooked on cheating while exploring the Chain. In summary, sinning in this way is usually accepted and forgiven, but advocating this sin might be met with less than friendly comments. ============================================= When I first played Moria(C64, about 1984), I will admit I save-scummed. It ruins the game. Really ruins it. I'm glad that Fargoal does not support it. Rixx
Well, if you add that feature this ceases to be a roguelike. Sure, it can be optional, but you could just as easily play a different game that suits your needs more. Don't get me wrong, I want EVERYBODY to buy this game. It's my favorite iPhone game, period. But it's not for everybody. There's other games, like Dungeon Hunter or Underworlds, that can give you that dungeon crawler experience but has the save slots you desire. I just think something like that in this game is more subtraction by addition. Why have randomly generated levels then? One of the biggest selling points of this game is it's infinite replayability. If everyone beat this game their first trip into the dungeon, you'd probably not feel compelled to come back for another go. Sword of Fargoal is TOO EASY, in my opinion. It's cousin on the app store Rogue Touch is FAR more brutal, and I have yet to come close to beating that game, and I've had it almost a year. But I still play it! How many iPhone games are people still playing almost a year later? Probably not many. I know people who played Rogue since the early 80's and have NEVER beaten it. It doesn't diminish the enjoyment they get from playing, however. It's a hard point to be arguing. Especially with the "what's the harm of having a save slot be an option" point. But I'll say you're robbing yourself of the enjoyment of the game with that option. You should be embracing these aspects of the game, not letting them frustrate you. Enjoy just playing the game and don't worry about getting the sword out right away. Take your time, level up appropriately, plan ahead, really use your brain for the best way to tackle all situations. And even if you take every precaution in the book, be prepared for your game to end at any moment, because it can happen even to the best of us. And if none of this sounds appealing, then it may just not be your type of game. But just know, that most other games can be beaten and forgotten in a matter of hours, while SoF has the potential to be a game you keep playing for the rest of time. I definitely agree with you here, and I think the devs do too. There's been talk of adding in a tutorial of sorts, or possibly a FAQ on the website. With that said, there's still plenty of pertinent information you can find on the internet already. And more than enough people willing to help with any type of questions. Myself, and I'm sure most other "Fargoal heads" in this thread would have absolutely no problem answering questions in this thread or via PM. I'm not keen on arguing with people about this game, or saying that their opinions or ideas are wrong. But I absolutely DO love this game enough to defend it, and hopefully help people to understand the different aspects about it so that they can fully enjoy it. I really hope you don't get so frustrated that you give up on this game, because this game has a lot to offer everyone.
But, why is this cheating? ==================== transitive verb 1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud 2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice 3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death> intransitive verb 1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test> 2 : to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on <was cheating on his wife> 3 : to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area <the shortstop was cheating toward second base> ==================== I'm not hacking the game or putting in a code to help me advance further or make me stronger. I'm giving myself a second chance at the same rules and difficulty, without having to painstakingly grind through earlier easier levels again. If I've learned something valuable by my death, why have to go through all that brainless grinding to apply what I've learned? Assuming it's not game changing knowledge, I'm going to play the exact same way up to that point. Obviously, if my technique from the beginning was flawed, then I'd want to do it right from the beginning. But, very often, that's not the case. I'm not suggesting that I be able to save any instant - after every fight, etc. But a modest save feature, say back to when you entered the current map - that doesn't seem like cheating to me, by any definition.
